PepsiCo CEO Indra Nooyi: Women Cannot Have It All

The ladies on Fox News’ Outnumbered discussed a topic during yesterday’s show that I found incredibly fascinating. The Atlantic owner David Bradley interviewed the CEO of PepsiCo, Indra K. Nooyi, during a session at the Aspen Ideas Festival and he asked her “what’s your opinion about whether or not women can have it all?” Her answer was quite uncommon, if you consider the average woman in America today.

(the portion relevant to this discussion begins at the 22 minute mark in the video above)

I don’t think women can have it all. I just don’t think so. We pretend we have it all. We pretend we can have it all. My husband and I have been married for 34 years. And we have two daughters. And every day you have to make a decision about whether you are going to be a wife or a mother, in fact many times during the day you have to make those decisions. And you have to co-opt a lot of people to help you. We co-opted our families to help us. We plan our lives meticulously so we can be decent parents. But if you ask our daughters, I’m not sure they will say that I’ve been a good mom. I’m not sure. And I try all kinds of coping mechanisms.

I’ll tell you a story that happened when my daughter went to Catholic school. Every Wednesday morning they had class coffee with the mothers. Class coffee for a working woman—how is it going to work? How am I going to take off 9 o’clock on Wednesday mornings? So I missed most class coffees. My daughter would come home and she would list off all the mothers that were there and say, “You were not there, mom.”

The first few times I would die with guilt. But I developed coping mechanisms. I called the school and I said, “give me a list of mothers that are not there.” So when she came home in the evening she said, “You were not there, you were not there.”

And I said, “ah ha, Mrs. Redd wasn’t there, Mrs. So and So wasn’t there. So I’m not the only bad mother.”

You know, you have to cope, because you die with guilt. You just die with guilt. My observation, David, is that the biological clock and the career clock are in total conflict with each other. Total, complete conflict. When you have to have kids you have to build your career. Just as you’re rising to middle management your kids need you because they’re teenagers, they need you for the teenage years.

And that’s the time your husband becomes a teenager too, so he needs you (laughing). They need you too. What do you do? And as you grow even more, your parents need you because they’re aging. So we’re screwed. We have no… we cannot have it all. Do you know what? Coping mechanisms. Train people at work. Train your family to be your extended family. You know what? When I’m in PepsiCo I travel a lot, and when my kids were tiny, especially my second one, we had strict rules on playing Nintendo. She’d call the office, and she didn’t care if I was in China, Japan, India, wherever. She’d call the office, the receptionist would pick up the phone, “Can I speak to my mommy?” Everybody knows if somebody says, ‘Can I speak to mommy?’ It’s my daughter. So she’d say, “Yes, Tyra, what can I do for you?”

“I want to play Nintendo.”

So she has a set of questions. “Have you finished your homework?” Etc. I say this because that’s what it takes. She goes through the questions and she says, “Okay, you can play Nintendo half an hour.” Then she leaves me a message. “Tyra called at 5. This is the sequence of questions I went through. I’ve given her permission.” So it’s seamless parenting. But if you don’t do that, I’m serious, if you don’t develop mechanisms with your secretaries, with the extended office, with everybody around you, it cannot work. You know, stay at home mothering was a full time job. Being a CEO for a company is three full time jobs rolled into one. How can you do justice to all? You can’t. The person who hurts the most through this whole thing is your spouse. There’s no question about it. You know, Raj always said, you know what, your list is PepsiCo, PepsiCo, PepsiCo, our two kids, your mom, and then at the bottom of the list is me. There are two ways to look at it. (laughing) You should be happy you’re on the list. So don’t complain. (laughing) He is on the list. He is very much on the list. But you know, (laughing) sorry, David.

As I sat listening to the discussion on Outnumbered, I wondered why it is that women think we have to have it “all”, and for those of us who strive to have it all, what exactly does having it “all” mean? I asked the question on social media to see what kind of feedback I’d get, and overwhelmingly, I got the same response we hear from Nooyi in this interview - women cannot have it all, and that is completely okay.

In life, we make choices. When my husband and I found out we were about to have a baby, I was a very successful hair designer in a high end salon. I made good money, and our financial future would have been bright had we made the choice for me to continue working. We weighed our options and decided that because we didn’t have extended family nearby to help us raise our little girl, we would make the sacrifice financially and I would stay home with her full time. Though we struggled deeply financially, we have never regretted the choice we made. Did I ever miss my job? You bet I did! I loved my job and had the best boss I’ve ever had. But for us, it was the right choice. I never felt forced by my husband, or cheated in any way for the decision we made, and I also never looked down on those who made a different choice — it’s a deeply personal decision.

Perhaps my definition of “all” is slightly different than those women I hear constantly asking the question and complaining that it’s somehow not fair that women cannot have it all. (Does any man have it all either? Really?) I do feel like I have it all. I am blessed to have a husband who loves me, and a wonderful, healthy, talented little girl. I have a roof over my head, I have food to eat, and good health. God has blessed me far more than I deserve, and while I may not have it “all” in the terms set by today’s standard — the high paying corporate position, multiple fancy cars, a maid, a vacation home, and on and on — I have all that I need, and I’m perfectly content with that.

Nooyi rightly pointed out that when one has what is considered “it all,” someone has to suffer because they come last on the list of priorities. That someone is usually the husband, and sometimes the children.  It’s literally impossible to have it all and to do it all well.

Perhaps your “all” looks different than mine…how do you define “having it all,” and do you think it’s an attainable goal? Do you agree with Nooyi?